An Old Woman Stays with Chao-chou

There was an old woman who came into the temple at nightfall.

The master [Chao-chou] said, “What are you doing?”

The old woman said, “I’ve come to stay overnight.”

The master said, “What place is this place?”

The old woman laughed heartily and left.

Commentary
The old woman had designs on Chao-chou but Chao-chou couldn’t be had.

This is yet another story in which Chao-chou's interaction with a woman contains sexual innuendo.

Source: The Recorded Sayings of Zen Master Joshu, translated by James Green
Photo by Russell Harrison

Comments

[Yamakoa]

Thanks barry for the this story.
Care to comment more. I initially did not perceive the sexual inuuendo. Even rereading it with that in mind (HA), it is not striking to me. If we are to believe the legends of Chao Chou, he must have been pretty old when this occurred. Maybe some of that fire was still there, but this is definitely before the time of viagra and cialis and great effort would have to be applied if he tried to act on this innuendo.

For now (mu)m is the word.
"Y"

[Barry]

Hi Yamakoa. If you scroll down through Zen Women, you'll see several other stories involving Chao-chou and women. Most of them are suggestive - at least to me and also to women who have seen a print version of this collection.

There are several possibilities here:

1. The stories are true. Let's assume that Chao-chou didn't start teaching until he was 80 years old and taught until he died at 120 years old. I'm not quite in Chao-chou's age range, but I can tell you as someone in his 60s that the sexual impulse hasn't diminished. And, my even older male friends confirm this. Robert Aitken, Roshi, has also written about this, from a teacher's perspective. If the stories are true, then Chao-chou sexualized his contact with women.

2. If the stories are true, then either Chao-chou was a lecher or the mores of the time permitted teachers and students to engage in sexual banter of the type that we modern Westerners find offensive.

3. In my view the most likely case is that the stories are fabrications. I say this without any specific scholarship into the record of Chao-chou, but having read some of the scholarship on the overall Tang Dynasty kong-an record. Several reputable scholars assert that many/most of the classical kong-an stories are literary fabrications from the early Song Dynasty. It may well be that Chao-chou's age range as a teacher is a fabrication (it boggles the modern mind) and, of course, the stories attributed to him may be mostly/wholly fabricated as well.

If I were a more ardent scholar - instead of a dilettante - I'd actually look into this in some detail. Instead, I'll probably just end up besmirching the name of an honored old worthy.

One time a monk asked Chao-chou, "Does a dog have Buddha-nature or not?"

Chao-chou responeded, "The door of every house leads to the capital (Chan-an)."

Which teacher was right - Lin-chi or Chao-chou?

[Uku]

What a thriller! ;)

With palms together,
Uku

[Yamakoa]

Thank you barry for your reply.

I wrote you a very long reply, but for some reason I can not post this zen babble. I will summarize quickly by saying that you present a new and interesting perspective on Chao-chou even though I am yet to see it.

I hear Chao-chou's dog barking again. Hold on. Is that Lin-Chi barking?

Right? Hmmm. Maybe it is LEFT there!